May 26, 2006

Demeaning a Nation- A thousand ways

India can brag about such book in the coming future and I think we are not far from it. And, only Indians can come out with newer ways of doing it.

There's this article on Rediff titled 'No one wants to hear us'. I must admit that it is one of the most disgusting articles I have read on the reservation issue. I am going to italicize the Rediff story (adapted to suit the post's need) and my consequent comments would be in normal font.

Mr. Tusha Jagtap, a doctor by profession and President, Dr Ambedkar Reservation Protection Front, a Dalit organisation, says, "My father was a railway employee and if I did not have the benefit of reservation I would not have become a doctor."

He secured 61 marks in the Science stream in his XII standard and got a medical seat just because he is a Dalit. But, nowhere in India you would find an upper caste student with 70 plus qualifying marks, getting a seat (No matter how poor he is). Why this discrimination? How can anyone trust such doctors?

When I (the Rediff personnel) pointed out that there are many Brahmins today who were cleaning toilets for a living because they didn't have better jobs, Dr Jagtap says: "When Dalits cleaned toilets for 2,000 years nobody thought of this. If Brahmins are cleaning toilets today what is wrong in it?"

Mr. Jagtap, the issue here is not about the work that the Brahmins are doing these days, but it's concerned with the fact that many of the upper caste people are living in economic distress just like the backward classes. And, the government should think of them too.

"After so many years of independence Dalit women are being raped in villages and no one takes this news seriously," he says angrily, "but have you ever read a Brahmin women being raped by a Dalit in this country? Never."

Why do you want to discuss an act as heinous as rape based on caste? Any woman, no matter what caste she belongs to, exploited to such an extent will experience the same trauma. Can't you leave at least a few things as sensitive as these untouched by caste?

There were two really good articles that followed this. I am providing the links to these articles below.

The first is
Who are the real dalits of India? and the second is Are Brahmins the Dalits of today?. The second article is a must. It reveals some important statistics that we were not aware of. It shows the need to review the definition of economic backwardness in India and why even some upper castes require reservations to survive with the backward classes in India. I hate saying this. Require Reservations.


  1. Very good fine! Gud Job.
    The following interview speaks of the heights of ignorance and depths of indifference of the HRD Ministry to the before and after-effects of this reservation issue.

  2. Very good find! Gud Job.
    The following interview speaks of the heights of ignorance and depths of indifference of the HRD Ministry to the before and after-effects of this reservation issue.

  3. karthik: Yeah, I have read a similar article.

  4. Extremist To Protagonist

    No Reservations.. No Reservations.. No Reservations . We sacrificed our lives so

    far and we cant do it anymore. Give reservations on economic basis but not on caste

    basis. Politicians are dividing India. These are very common lines we are hearing in

    the news channels and reading in the news papers.Thanks to the great democratic

    indian electronic and print media which helped in parching the issue of reservations

    and spreading agitations all around the nation.

    Before bluntly raising your wrath against allotment of reservations have you ever

    thought of the reasons for reservations or purpose of reservations.yes,there is need

    to know all these things before raising voice against reservations.
    According to the

    history, the caste system started with the advent of Aryans.Who migrated from

    europe into India around 1500 BC. They destroyed indus valley settlements, crossed

    indus,entered India.They easily acquired the possesions of the local habitats and

    made them slaves.Later the aryans recited from vedas written by them that castes

    are formed in this way saying " the god illuminated the earth with his presence and

    left the earth after creating four kinds of people(chaturvarnya),different flora and

    fauna.The first of the four kinds is brahmana who was formed from gods

    mouth,kshatriya was formed from arms,vaishya was formed from thighs , shudra

    sprang from gods feet ,moon from soul,sun from eye,vayu from breath" and so on

    (according to rig veda).In this way aryans divided the community into four classes.

    Kshatriyas are the rulers but the ultimate decision makers and the virtual rulers are

    the brahmins, vaishyas are the agricultural and traders section of the community and

    sudhras are the are section of people who are regarded as slaves for the remaining

    three sections.So,here it is clearly understood that the stronger people initially took

    advantage by intromiting caste system in the society and dominated entire civilization

    and the weaker person is subjected to oppression.Stronger people refers to three

    higher sections and weaker person refers to shudras or dalits or lower section.In

    course of time the community is further divided into classes or sections according to

    the work which people perform.It is clearly mentioned in history that brahmins

    instrumented these divisions.

    At that time the treatment received by cattle and dogs

    from higher classes was far more better than treament received from them by the

    oppressed classes.Untouchability is at its zenith until independence.The life which they

    lead is pathetic.Words are meagre to describe the sufferings of the oppressed classes

    under higher classes of the society.
    Another important thing here to note is the cause

    for mahatma gandhi to lead the great freedom movement in the world at that time.

    The cause was his own sufferings,the racial discrimination that he has undergone and

    many other indians have undergone due to the colonial rulers.
    The first humiliating

    experience of gandhi happened in south africa ,where he was asked to move from his

    first class compartment to general comparment even he got proper ticket.This he

    refused and he was turned out.He had many similar experiences in south africa.

    These humiliating experiences made him to think how fellow indians are suffering

    under colonial rulers since 1757 when British gained control over major parts of india

    by winning battle of plassey.He then resolved to fight against British for

    independence.We can imagine what could have happened if British treated indians

    with respect, no meerut mutiny and no freedom struggle.
    The indignities that mahatma

    gandhi and lots of other upper caste indians have suffered under British are very

    very minor compared to the indignities suffered by the oppressed castes in india

    under nefarious upper castes.The sufferings of indians under British rule ended after

    190 years(1757-1947) but the sufferings of lower castes in india are perennial(from

    1500 BC).They are being discriminated badly in public sector companies,private

    sector,in educational institutions,etc.The attrocoties on them are innumerable in rural

    india.A clear delve about obc's,sc's and st's in above places enables you to know the


    The reason for onesided coverage and support for anti reservationists from

    print and electronic media and just nominal coverage of pro reservation rallys that too

    in one or two channels is that the number of obc/sc/st journalists in delhi very

    minimum(see 14th page of june 5th hindu newspaper).All the leading print and

    electronic media in india are dominated and runned by higher castes and how can

    they support pro-reservationists.The insensitive and casteist forms of protest some

    of the anti-resevationist doctors adoped-the symbolic sweeping of streets,shining of

    shoes,singing songs warning ob's and others to remember their place were put on air

    without any comment by the channels.Nobody asked what kind of doctors these

    meritorious students were likely to become if they had such contempt towarda the

    more than half the population of india.
    If situation of a meritorious student of upper classes

    is taken,in case if he/she looses seat or job due to reservations he can get job or

    seat at another place with his/her merit and their living will not be effected due to

    reservations.In case if that person is below poverty line also if he/she is merit sudent

    then there are number of private organisations,mnc's which are offering jobs and

    even if reservations in private sector is implemented,the number of jobs for

    meritorious oc students will not melt,it is clear( prv. may not be possible).All the

    private* companies in india belong to the upper caste people and they will not allow

    surge of lower caste person in their company(you can easily know this thing if you

    work in any private/public sector indian comapany).In these private/public sector

    companies in india a talented obc/sc/st candidate cannot reach great heights as an

    average general candidate can.In public sector the conditions of lower caste people is

    very worst.
    Another sweet thing to hear is , general or upper caste candidate gets

    great sympathy if he opts a road sweeping job but it makes no affect if a lower caste

    person does the sweeping job or pulls a rickshaw.So, caste based feelings in india are

    still alive and dignity of labour has not taken birth yet.The ratio of above cases are

    very less may be 1:1000.The obc's/sc's/st's are more economically backward than

    upper castes.yes there are few exceptional cases like oc's sweeping roads or jobless

    which upper caste indian media highlights but they are very less compared to the

    innumerable cases of obc's/sc's/st's and it is the fact known to everybody.No obc/sc

    /st runs a mnc/large corporate business in india,this is also a known fact.yet we dont

    care about the oppressed.
    It is not at all true that there will be effect on nation due to

    reservations,if that is true then india would still have been a backward nation.It is also

    not true that the reservation candidates are incompetent.The reservation canditates

    who acquired seats in prestigious IIT's/AIIMS/IIM'S etc. and jobs in research

    organisations are equally talented.For general or reserved candidate it is equally

    difficult to enter an IIT or an IIM.Even though he/she is a reserved candidate he/

    she has to possess certain standards to enter these prestigious organisations.They

    are performing well in the same way as others in these organisations and institutions

    .We can confirm this thing by inspecting these places.
    It is not fair to still

    suppress the weaker sections which make more than 50% of indian population.It is

    not fair to still oppress them even after their 3000 years of disastrous sufferings.

    Reservations have to continue until equality is acheived in our country both

    economically and socially.All sections of the indian community must be equal in both

    social and economic conditions.Social equality in the sense there should be no person

    recognised on basis of caste as sharma/khanna/malhothra/iyer etc. or everybody

    should be either khanna/malhothra/iyer ,etc.This equality shall create heaven oin

    india.Further oppressions and indignities on the weaker sections may lead to great

    revolutions that we can imagine and many M.A.Jinnah's may ake birth from these

    revolutions.If all the people think with positive mindset then,nothing can stop india.
    I am very much impressed by your views on different topics placed in your blog

    but i am shocked by learning your views on reservations.I dont know to which caste

    you belong but now i can understand you belong to some higher caste.I too belong

    to a higher caste but i am enlightened by learning real facts from the history and now

    i have no negative opinion on the reservations.
    "learning from the history and acting in future"
    This is the best way to do things which i have learnt from my past experiences.
    I know that you are a heuristic person and i can understand that these are your

    feelings out of disappointment.But dont worry your capabilities will never let you down.

    you will definetely win your race.
    - Mona Pruthi

  5. Mona:

    I totally agree with you that the upper castes had suppressed the backward classes in the past. Infact, I had mentioned this in one of my earlier posts.

    I am afraid you haven't got my point on reservations. I repeat I am not against reservations.

    I want the backward classes to come forward and share the status that the upper castes have been enjoying. But, what worries me is the fact that these reservations will not be of much help to the real needy, the real dalits in rural India. How would they benifit from reservations at IITs and IIMs when they can't afford even primary education. The government needs to start from scratch to help such people. And, moreover, this is not about we and they, upper castes and lower castes, it's about 'us'.

    That's what I wanted to convey through my posts.

  6. Mr. Jagtap logic seems to be "We have been treated unfairly, so let's treat somebody else unfairly now." I agree with your comments. I don't live in India so I am not in the middle of the heat of discussion. Posts like yours allow me to get some independent opinions (rather than the manufactured ones in the media). THanks for the post.

  7. You agreed that backward caste people in the rural India need reservations. Then you say, how the reservations in IIM's & IIT's help them(rural dalits) ?
    You must be thinking that all the students who make it under the reservation quota are from the urban areas. Which is true. But these people are there because of the reservations. Now youmay say that they are the second or third generation benificiaries. Yes, they may be , just like their upper caste 'Nth' generation benificiaries. There are other institutes like university of hyderabad or osmania university or small ZPH school in the mandals whose intake in the reserved sectors is from the rural areas. I can show you hundreds of examples in my own university and i can introduce you to some of the dalit intellectuals from whom all your confusion about deriving a better reservation formulae might get clarified.
    coming to the distress of the poor brahmins and other uppercastes, they have almost fifty persent unreserved reservation but the educated population in that segment is very high. So, there is nothing wrong if brahmins or other uppercaste people are forced to do so called menial jobs. They will be treated by the state as the people living in that sector.

  8. The article you have sited-"are brahmins the dalits of today" can be ripped into pieces. I am really sorry to say that even though you state repeatedly that you are of secular and liberal conscience. I really doubt that.

  9. mr mahesh,

    I already stated my opinion on this. And, I don't want to repeat myself again and again. Please understand my argument carefully before trying to comment. Thank you.

  10. Dear indu,
    I have gone through your entire blog. I really appreciate your 'RANGE'. I have enjoyed reading your poetry ,specially in telugu. Your travel discriptions are nice. Your confusion on the idiotic movie ,'Rang de basanti' tells that you have a decent outlook. The theme of the movie can be explained as 'Committing suicide through society'(Van gough's book). But when it came to the issue of reservations at many insatnces in your own lines or sitations i see many faults. It may bebecause of my own academic background. You are complaining that iam commenting without getting your argument, perhaps in a proper way. Your argument,'reservations on the economic basis'has it's problems. It can't be applied through out the country, across all the classes ans castes in the same manner. After all the concept of 'nation state' itself is a higly debated issue. So, no need to be religious about the 'motherland'. If you are interested i would like to suggest you a few readings(becz i feel u read a lot) -
    a)collection of Interviews with 'Michael Foucault'
    b)Why i am not a hindu - Kancha Iliyah
    c)Collection of articles in The pioneer by Mr Chandra bhan prasad.

    If you have already gone through some or all of these, great.